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Post Info TOPIC: The AA Big Book and 13th Steppers ?


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The AA Big Book and 13th Steppers ?
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Hi there. Some of you may remember me. "Doll". I couldn't remember my password and my email address has changed since then so I had to "re-register'. Anyway, it's good to be here again!

 

On 9/22 I will celebrate 5 years! I can't believe how time flies........ Which brings me to my subject. I now sponsor several and one of them recently asked me where in the BB does it talk about 13th Stepping. I couldn't answer her! I have always believed there's a difference between 2 consenting adults (either or both with or without 1yr soberiety) having a relationship and 13th stepping. To me, 13th steppers are those who abuse their "power" by taking advantage of  a members weakness!  

So, come on, all you BB thumpers, where is it?

 

Glad to be back!



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Hi doll i sobered up 5 years ago in march and just came back to this site (not 39 anymore). i don't recall where or if it says that in the big book but i agree with you i think of 13 stepping as taking advantage of someone new to sobriety

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Obsession with self in these matters is a dead end; attention  to God leads us out into the open, into a spacious, free life.  Romans 8:6 , The Message


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Thanks, Bryan. And CONGRATS on 5 years!

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MIP Old Timer

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Welcome back,  ... DollBaby ... 13th stepping ???

 

It's more well defined in the 12X12 ... pg. 119 last half of the page ... but it's not called 13th stepping actually ... I think that tag got added later on ...

AND you might check out this web site ...:

 

http://thirteenthstepping.com/13th-stepping/

 

God Bless,

Pappy



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you too doll


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Obsession with self in these matters is a dead end; attention  to God leads us out into the open, into a spacious, free life.  Romans 8:6 , The Message


MIP Old Timer

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Pythonpappy wrote:

Welcome back,  ... DollBaby ... 13th stepping ???

 

It's more well defined in the 12X12 ... pg. 119 last half of the page ... but it's not called 13th stepping actually ... I think that tag got added later on ...

AND you might check out this web site ...:

 

http://thirteenthstepping.com/13th-stepping/

 

God Bless,

Pappy


           Nice link Pappy, thanks.



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Mr.David


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Bill Wilson actually invented the term meaning to sleep with newcomers because he was doing so, it's a sad but true part of our history, google it and you will find it's true, the man definitely channeled some divine stuff, but he was human, like the rest of us.

It isn't mentioned anywhere in the BB, the Big Book is VERY clear about how AA is to stay out the sex controversy, but as time went on the fellowship learned we often replaced one addiction with another, ie relationships, sex, drugs etc. and also sexual predators emerged, hence two of the accepted truisms of AA are in most cases it's a bad idea to jump into an intense relationship in your first year (try it sometime, it's a hoot lol, want to meet all your character defects? weeeee lets have a relationship weee) and sexual predators emerged, which was using AA's teaching to create what Psychologists called "transference" for their own sexual benefits usually to the detriment of the newcomer.

Since the book was published we learned a few things, like dropping acid to try to have a spiritual experience isn't really a great idea (Bill Wilson again) but there are some truths not in the book, it's not the bible, although it saved my life and millions of others, just because something is not in the book doesn't mean it doesn't exist

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MIP Old Timer

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OMG DOLL! I was just thinking about you the other week. I was in my first few months sobriety when you stopped posting. You taught me some great stuff. There was one time I came here bitching that I had a "burning resentment" against my sponsor. It was mostly cuz both me and my sponsor had questionable boundaries, he was only a year and a half sober when I started working with him - I got mad at him for being short tempered and judging me - of course, at that time what was I doing? Being short tempered and judging. Go figure.

Anyhow, it was you that made the satement "If you spot it, you got it." Of course I tucked that away in my evergrowing file of AA sayings and it was totally on the money and what I needed to hear at that time.

I believe you were the first person on this board to tell me what I probably needed to hear when it was different than what I wanted to hear. Glad you are back.

I don't have much to add on the topic of what the BB might say about 13th steppers. I did remember something in the 12 and 12 (step 12) though and here it is:



"It is only where "boy meets girl on A.A. campus," and love follows at first sight, that difficulties may develop. The prospective partners need to be solid A.A.'s and long enough acquainted to know that their compatibility at spiritual, mental, and emotional levels is a fact and not wishful thinking. They need to be as sure as possible that no deep-lying emotional handicap in either will be likely to rise up under later pressures to cripple them."


**This would highlight the danger of 13th stepping though it's not exactly specific in talking about the predatory nature of it.

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MIP Old Timer

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Hi Doll welcome back. You were missed. Some sad news, we lost ToniBallony aka JustToni last year.

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Hi Doll, Good to c u. Wagon



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Wagon


MIP Old Timer

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Thanks for bringing it up - welcome back!

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MIP Old Timer

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LinBabaAgo-go wrote:

Bill Wilson actually invented the term meaning to sleep with newcomers because he was doing so, it's a sad but true part of our history, google it and you will find it's true, the man definitely channeled some divine stuff, but he was human, like the rest of us...
.

Since the book was published we learned a few things, like dropping acid to try to have a spiritual experience isn't really a great idea (Bill Wilson again) but there are some truths not in the book, it's not the bible, although it saved my life and millions of others, just because something is not in the book doesn't mean it doesn't exist


 It shouldn't surprise that there is little, if anything, in the Big Book about 13th stepping, since there were so few women (alcoholics) around AA. There was only one who stayed sober a year before the BB was published.

But, yes, 13th stepping does exist. And the predatory form of it is another of the few cardinal sins in AA. Committed by many, including ole Bill W. Most groups seem to ignore the problem



-- Edited by Tanin on Sunday 12th of August 2012 10:38:43 PM

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MIP Old Timer

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 It shouldn't surprise that there is little, if anything, in the Big Book about 13th stepping, since there were so few women (alcoholics) around AA. There was only one who stayed sober a year before the BB was published.

But, yes, 13th stepping does exist. And the predatory form of it is another of the few cardinal sins in AA. Committed by many, including ole Bill W. Most groups seem to ignore the problem



-- Edited by Tanin on Sunday 12th of August 2012 10:38:43 PM


 Like Tanin said,  this issue was not even on the radar when the BBook was written.  Early on the wives would often atttend the meetings or meet together in another room at the same time as the AA men.  I remember reading that there had been tension from the wives regarding women AA members and some women where kept out.

We have to remember that 13th stepping can work both ways, although I'm sure it is more offencive coming from a man.  I was 24 when I came to AA and my sponsor told me the women who would probably try to hit on me and he was mostly right.

If you are a man or women with some soberiety and you here about 13th stepping,  you need to get together with another respected group member and address the issue privatly with the culprit.

 



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It's funny that Linbaba mentioned about Bill's 13th stepping.  I've just finished the book When Love Is Not Enough,  The Lois Wilson Story.  It mentions it in there.  They just put it down as rumours, made up by jealous people though.

 



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Tracey C wrote:

It's funny that Linbaba mentioned about Bill's 13th stepping.  I've just finished the book When Love Is Not Enough,  The Lois Wilson Story.  It mentions it in there.  They just put it down as rumours, made up by jealous people though.

 


 So you have this person who started alanon still in denial about her alcoholic, classic



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MIP Old Timer

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Welcome back, Jen! I have missed you ever since you left & have even regularly checked your last access to see if you were about! We never forget those who helped us in our early recovery. Even though we have about the same time you had a good impact on me too. Please keep coming back, sister. You are wanted, needed & loved here :D Godbless & recovery love, Danielle x

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