I think they are removed when they no longer serve us, hard to explain, but when I concentrate on the problem, the problem increases, when I concentrate on the solution, the solution increases

Praise Allah but tie your camel to a post, or Like your sponsor says, God doesn't make your bed

So rather then trying to have my defects removed, I look at having them replaced with the healthy opposite/same/mirrored action

Chuck C explains it a lot better then I do in a New Pair of Glasses, but what I resist, persists, the actual character defects I have had removed were removed with no effort on my part, many of the defects I have worked on are still around.

Jack Kornfield talks about treating your mind like a puppy, when it wanders, just bring it back to where it is supposed to be, don't yell at it, don't scold it, don't beat it, just keep picking it back up and bringing it back to where it is supposed to be, so rather then concentrating on the defect, looking at the right action has borne some fruit

Also step six in the 12 and 12 has some great insight on this.

I am no model of virtue, and by god I still possess a few howlers but I am willing to have all them lifted root and branch, and many many many of my bad ones and even many of my not so bad ones have been, progress not perfection.

This is also when periodic "time lapse spot check" 10th steps come in handy

when last I drove by this bench I used to drink at I was:

and checking the progress of our lives by a static unchanging object, I went there when I got out of jail, after cheating on my gf, during pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization, at one year of sobriety and my life was____, at 2 years and my life was____

It's slow going but the defects get removed in and of themselves when we realize how harmful they are to us IMO.

Hey STEVE P!First thing  I find important is going back thru your work ,your previous 5 steps and check for leaks..Are you truly surrendered?,do you believe that your HP  is restoring you to sanity?,are you turning both your will and life over to the "care" of God,?Was it really searching and fearless?Were you able to locate the"exact nature" of your admission? if all looks good,the its time .Are you "entirely ready"in other words to  behave differently than you have in the past?Is it still ringing self-will in certain areas,your own way?Step 6 is all about 'Willingness"The recogniton of the problem(anger,self rightousness any defects you still enjoy?)enables you to do something about it..Remember literature tells us "delay is dangerous and rebellion may be fatal!!Continualy moving towards God 's will for us is te point were heading toward. The key here is"entirely ready" got any reservations going on?You know "well its not really that bad,you know he made me mad,or You know I desreve that, etc..You know it was  only step 1 where we made 100% admission that we were powerless over alcohol and that can be practised with perfection.Step 1 is the only step that mentions the addictive substance or object of our compulsion(alcohol) and our problem with our powerlessness,all the next 11 steps deal with the solution,a series of actions that will solve the problem and will be a life long endeavor.This step is really never completed because we cannot achieve a perfect willingness to have God remove our defects of character.We are fallen ,human beings with many defects and shortcomings,but that does not mean we ever stop trying.We continue to pray for willingnes and when we are satisfied with how we are approaching this step we can talk with our sponsor and pray for willingness...Dont forget it is God who does the removing in His way and timetable,this is also a renewal of our 3rd(turning over) and our 2nd continuation of restoration to sanity.I end with a prayer,understand this is never complete and go to 7.The blessings for me in the solution is I am always working toward my HP'S will and to me that is my ultimate goal be as close as I can humanely be to my God and I believe everthing else will fall into place,My God wants me to be everything He intended me to be ,but He leaves the details up to me and I do the work..Work hard Steve,stop at each testing and "use spiritual principles asking God for help.Is it easy? no,is it doable? absolutely......Through Him all things are possible!

Hi There Steve,

When you started your Post with:

"I did my step 5 a while ago as well as Step 9, etc. I work my Step 10 daily and to my Step 11 work too."

Years ago, I was sort of ease dropping on this man that I admired, he was speaking to all three of his Sponsees at the same time. And he said basically, no, you cannot just skip ahead, but you can always go back, and then sighted the 4th Step as an example, he continued with, if you find you are having a really difficult time on this step, or any step, my suggestion would be to go back and redo the 3rd Step, (in relation to the 4th Step I mentioned he was first talking about).

How about asking your Sponsor, well this is a grey area, but what the heck, if you are feeling like your Character Defects are glaring back at you, how about asking if you can go back and revisit that step, and stay on it, til you feel some relief.

I still have many, well let's just say they try and visit. :) and when they raise their narly heads occasionally, have to deal with the whatever defect of character it is, Pray immediately about help with the removal,  or be faced with the feeling of falling back into that Old Bondage of Self, and dont like that place at all.

The big plus I saw to this Post, is you bringing out into the Sunlight, and letting GOD, and your dear Sponsor now help you with the  removal of them....

Third Step Prayer is also a wonderful Prayer on what you have been aware of.

A Big hug dearie,

Tonicakes....

 

Well first I was going to say Bill and Larry fleshed out what I was trying to explain, then I noticed Oblong nailed it, then I reread what Toni had to say......

So by redoing our steps (Toni - I've done 8 sets- and more is in fact revealed) we notice them (oblong) and then we learn to change our defects into assets (Larry and Bill) but God is in fact doing this, not us (Mike)

This isn't a self help program, it's a God help program, but God only does for us what we can't do for ourselves, so we are responsible for the rest.

Right now I am sitting on a big pile of procrastination, where I am staying busy doing A, B and C (things like housework, laundry, yardwork, MIP) when I really need to get over my fear and go find a different job where I don't risk my life every day and allow myself to get ripped off by these companies I am presently working for, where since I charge a day rate (to get X trees down, I bill out as a climber) these companies make me work a full day climbing then another half day doing groundwork cleaning my own mess because they are too cheap to hire groundmen and stopping for lunch is considered wasting time, so they ultimately work me twice as hard for half the $$$ crying about the economy. I used to run my own business, so I know costs and I see the bids, I know what these guys are making, usually 2-3k a day when I work and they cry poor and say they can't afford to pay my normal rate, when in fact 700-1000 a day clear is GOOD money, they are making 2-3 times that off my climbing and screwing me.

I'm letting them do it, but it's driving me insane.

I talk to my climber buddies and they are sticking to their guns and making the normal rate for the normal day, every other freelancer has walked away from these companies and refused to work for them since they don't give "raises" they literally give "lowers", my income has dropped in half since starting with them and I'm working twice as hard twice as many hours, but since I hooked up all my old clients with ace top climbers that I trained myself when I got into the restaurant business with my family a few years ago, I made myself redundant.

So that's the big one killing me right now, fear leading to procrastination.

-- Edited by AGO on Friday 7th of May 2010 08:11:05 PM

Thanks to each every one on her for this great stuff. I'd send a PM to each one to say thanks, but there's too many! ;)

This will be great stuff to complement my talk with my sponsor tonite.

As I've been reflecting on the great responses on here, I've landed upon intriguing reality. MikeF's points, complemented by Toni's comments about relooking at Step 3 in particular really hit home. I realize that a lot of what I did in my Step 5 and my Step 10s have been about doing that in order not to drink again, NOT in order to help me to be remove those defects that get in the way of my usefulness to God, as the Step 5 prayer says. As AGO so rightly says, this is a GOD program, not a me program. I know intellectually that the word alcohol is mentioned only once in all of the steps, but I think that in practice it hadn't necessarily registered inside.

AGO wrote:

"So that's the big one killing me right now, fear leading to procrastination."

I totally relate. A lot of the defects that I am still grappling with have fear as an ingredient in them, which leads to procrastination and the rest. I guess that I have a fear of criticism or screwing things up, which in turn makes me not want to involve others, get comments, etc.


And Dean wrote:

"**** no, we're not doing that again, I'm tired of apologizing"."

Love it!

Funny you should mention that, b/c I'm really getting that deja vu now with my boss in particular! heh, heh, maybe soon I'll see that doing it right the first time is better than having to apologize! :)

Steve

Toni brings up an interesting point, one I personally call "The Good Actor Blues" and quite frankly has been one of the most painful of my character defects over the years.

I think I am "people pleasing" when in fact I am being selfish and self centered. I lie in order to avoid conflict, and because I have an inability to say No and stick to my guns but I dress it up in lofty titles, and call it my codependency, but for me all the answers to my codependency lie in just a few paragraphs, returning to step 3 over and over and over is necessary to me nearly daily:

In trying to make these arrangements our actor may sometimes be quite virtuous. He may be kind, considerate, patient, generous; even modest and self-sacrificing. On the other hand, he may be mean, egotistical, selfish and dishonest. But, as with most humans, he is more likely to have varied traits.

What usually happens? The show doesn't come off very well. He begins to think life doesn't treat him right. He decides to exert himself more. He becomes, on the next occasion, still more demanding or gracious, as the case may be. Still the play does not suit him. Admitting he may be somewhat at fault, he is sure that other people are more to blame. He becomes angry, indignant, self-pitying. What is his basic trouble? Is he not really a self-seeker even when trying to be kind? Is he not a victim of the delusion that he can wrest satisfaction and happiness out of this world if he only manages well? Is it not evident to all the rest of the players that these are the things he wants? And do not his actions make each of them wish to retaliate, snatching all they can get out of the show? Is he not, even in his best moments, a producer of confusion rather than harmony?

Forgetting these few words:

In trying to make these arrangements our actor may sometimes be quite virtuous. He may be kind, considerate, patient, generous; even modest and self-sacrificing.

He becomes on the next occasion still more gracious

Has brought me years and years of suffering, what I thought were character assets were in fact self centered manipulation of myself and those around me.

There was no "people pleasing" in my case, only self centered fear and manipulation.

I was told "scratch an alcoholic and you find a codependent" and sadly enough that has proven to be true in my case, although it took me 15 years to learn that.





-- Edited by AGO on Saturday 8th of May 2010 12:17:24 PM