LINKS
MIP Home Page

A.A. Group Home Page
A.A. Meeting/Chat Room
Site Technical Problems or Questions?
Step Work Board - A Step each week!
Online Meeting Schedules
Music to Enjoy while here!


**By clicking the "Donate" graphic above you will be taken to paypal.com where you can make a donation amount of your choice to ensure this site stays fully self supporting through its members contributions. Any amount you donate will be appreciated and valued. Thank you!


Alcoholics Anonymous Group
Message Board

Online Meetings
Tuesday and Saturday Nites at 9Pm Eastern Time!
Saturday Morning 11AM est

Twelve Steps
and

Twelve Traditons

Alcoholics Anonymous
Big Book

Living Sober
Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Post Info TOPIC: The original 13th Step


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 435
Date:
The original 13th Step
Permalink  
 


The founders of this great group originally talked about an unwritten 13th Step.  And it was a thing of beauty.  After living a life of sobriety by using the 12 Steps, the alcoholic took the 13th Step to his/her grave.  When they were placed in their grave  they began their 13th Step.  There by living in all eternity a life of sobriety.

But the meaning of this step changed and sadly past away to it's present meaning - which at times is seen as a reason for divorces and folks abusing another's vulnerability.

Any AA history buffs who know how the original beauty of the 13th Step was changed or somewhat lost over time?



__________________
"A busy mind is a sick mind.  A slow mind, is a healthy mind.  A still mind, is a divine mind." - Native American Centerness

Creating Dreams, from the nightmares of hell...


Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 8
Date:
Permalink  
 

Dave, Thanks for the post and question.  I have read what you posted and also a follow up. Because the thirteenth step was into the grave, hooking up at meetings with a new and vulnerable member of the opposite sex for sexual purposes often led the bewildered newcomer back to the bottle and ultimately the grave.  I guess this helping someone to their death was at sometime then referred to as thirteenth stepping.

However I think it unfortunate that some people take this beyond the sense of reason and ridicule anyone even talking to a newcomer at a meeting or welcoming a new member to the fellowship.  This can also plant an inappropriate idea of working together for a common purpose.  To me an alcoholic is an alcoholic within the rooms of AA.  When it is taken to the personal level is when it becomes troublesome for both participants.  Neil


__________________
Later


MIP Old Timer

Status: Offline
Posts: 3089
Date:
Permalink  
 


Aloha Trudger...I don't know the original history of the 13th step but I do know what the
present reference means and have made amends for the practice of it at times in the
past.  I once use to understand it as trying to chase a high that was higher than my
higher power.  I also came to understand it as a partial relapse...not drinking the whole
drink, just going to the party.  There of course is no such thing in this program.  I don't
get to have only one without the entire consequences...insanity or death.

In support smile



__________________


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 230
Date:
Permalink  
 

I always figured that 13 = 1 + 12, thus:

My life is unmanageable and I'd like to share it with you in an unprincipled affair!


Love y'all.
Glad yer here.
Keep coming back.


__________________
Serenity,

jasperkent


MIP Old Timer

Status: Offline
Posts: 3675
Date:
Permalink  
 

It's not an opposite sex thing in my fellowship.

__________________
Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!


MIP Old Timer

Status: Offline
Posts: 6245
Date:
Permalink  
 

then there are the "14th steppers" who are one step ahead of all the other "13th steppers"

__________________

 







Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 28
Date:
Permalink  
 

I don't care about that unwritten 'one-year' rule regarding relationships; if a girl wants to go out on a date, I'd go!
This is the only instance when I'd violate sage, AA advice.

__________________


MIP Old Timer

Status: Offline
Posts: 1436
Date:
Permalink  
 

I don't think sage AA advice is to live like a monk, more to put your sobriety first. For me a messed up relationship is a big old hazard. It's taken me years to learn that I don't die from a messed up relationship.

But there is and should be sage advice to prevent predatory behaviour.

__________________

It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you got.
BB

When all else fails - RTFM



Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 7
Date:
Permalink  
 

I like this step in its original form. I hope that One Day at a Time, I to, may follow the step as many of the old timers before me have.

Now....Its present meaning. Being married twenty nine years. I never looked for that type of a relationship with another AA. I have many girl friends but, no girlfriends. I know that for me to seek that balance we all should be striving for. An intimate relationship between both sexes is important. I get, two newcomers having relationships. One who has accrued any sort of time knows this is wrong. Thus, having a relationship with a newcomer is an act of selfishness not selflessness. One can rationalize where it would be alright and as I have told many of my brothers. You claim you really care about the person, then give them a year and see what you think then. There are plenty of women in AA with time looking for their soul mate. Look them up or is it the fear of a woman with her head in the right place, stopping the thirteenth stepper. More often than not. In the end you must live with it. Seek your Higher Power he or she or it knows what is right.

__________________


MIP Old Timer

Status: Offline
Posts: 3675
Date:
Permalink  
 

Of course all of this gets away from Dave's original point about the 13 step being the spiritual journey after death. I am reminded that in life we cannot achieve perfection, but we can when we pass away and are with our higher power as one. Not to be morose, but this is a comforting thought in a way.

__________________
Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
ljc


MIP Old Timer

Status: Offline
Posts: 520
Date:
Permalink  
 

Thanks Dave for the history that I was unaware of ... the 13th step not being a sexual predator thing.

It has always been my understanding that there really isn't any 13th step in AA. ( meaning the sexual interpretation of it ).



__________________

K.i.s.s.



MIP Old Timer

Status: Offline
Posts: 3675
Date:
Permalink  
 

Last night at a meeting we mourned the death of a member's father who "never got the AA message" even though he did live to be 81. It was shared that he died with many people angry at him...most of the family except for his daughter that is in the rooms. My grandsponsor shared that this woman's father "gets it now" and that now he understands everything and is not struggling, not baffled, not confused because he is with God. It was moving. I feel lucky to have received help from AA before my life became more and more tragic. I also was amazed that this woman was able to be there for her dad in the end when no other family member was. That is a gift of AA and sobriety...to be present.

__________________
Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!


MIP Old Timer

Status: Offline
Posts: 755
Date:
Permalink  
 

This is a comment form a cybersober friend:

My understanding of the 13th Step came from Dr. Bob and The Good Old Timers, in which (sorry, don't have the book handy) two of the members did "IT" on the examining table at Dr. Bob's.

The idea being that you were supposed to do all the Steps, wait a year, (so's your romancin' didn't cause you to compromise and slip) and then consummate your sobriety, huh?


__________________
Willingness is the key.
Page 1 of 1  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.