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Post Info TOPIC: Driver's License


Senior Member

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Date:
Driver's License
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For quite a while had a problem with employer's not accepting job applications because a person did not have a license.

Here is what I sent to the local paper--Kalamazoo Gazette on November 7 2008.        


Letter to the Editor:

NO EMPLOYMENT FOR PEOPLE WITHOUT DRIVER"S LICENSE

As many people and businesses know there is a high rate of unemployment in the area.
And some of this is of our own making, whether you know it or not.
I am talking about the practice of requiring Job applicants to have a Driver's License.
Many people do not have one--some by choice, handicap, age or other problems.
And some of these people have jobs and some of us do not.
It is the people that Do Not have a Driver's License who are having trouble finding jobs.
This is because employers are Requiring people to have one to apply.
Even though driving is not a part of the job--employers still expect us to have one.
A person does not always need to have a Driver's License to perform a variety of Jobs.
Especially inside sales people--clothing, toys, hardware, appliances, books etc.
If people can get to a job by other means--public transportation, taxis, scooters, bicycle etc.
Why reguire a Driver's License--when a State Id will do for identification.
This seems to be a sort of discrimmination on the part of employers.
If people that do not have a Driver's License can get a job then the unemployment rate will go down.
Which will benefit everyone in the long run.

Now also have a/the problem of having been to court and that hanging over a persons head as a major common crimminal even though all costs and restriction are over, employer's do not want to deal with a person either.

Karen D.

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Karen D.  in MI


MIP Old Timer

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Hi Karen, welcome to the board. Thanks for posting you story, it's invaluable to newcomers and guests who are considering taking the plunge into recovery. Stick around and help us to stay sober.

Dean

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MIP Old Timer

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Hi Karen,

Thanks so much for filling some of in on that fact.  I did know that you can no longer board an air line, with out a Drivers License.

And when you said the State ID, is that the ID that the DMV offers to people that want a Picture ID??  makes me so curious.

Thanks again for Posting this, very valuable info. for sure.

And again, Welcome to MIP!

Toni

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"This seems to be a sort of discrimination on the part of employers."

The discrimination classes are  as follows (from the federal gov. website)  google is your friend smile.gif

"I. What Are the Federal Laws Prohibiting Job Discrimination?

  • Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Title VII), which prohibits employment discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin ;
  • the Equal Pay Act of 1963 (EPA), which protects men and women who perform substantially equal work in the same establishment from sex-based wage discrimination;
  • the Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967 (ADEA), which protects individuals who are 40 years of age or older;  <---I like that one smile.gif
  • Title I and Title V of the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 (ADA), which prohibit employment discrimination against qualified individuals with disabilities in the private sector, and in state and local governments;
  • Sections 501 and 505 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, which prohibit discrimination against qualified individuals with disabilities who work in the federal government; "
sorry hun, drivers licenses are fair game.  hmm



I know that you Can board a plane with a Passport, and i believe the standard requirement is "A government ID" this is from the TSA website.


ID Requirements for Airport Checkpoints

Airtravel
Identity Matters

Effective June 21, 2008, adult passengers (18 and over) are required to show a U.S. federal or state-issued photo ID that contains the following: name, date of birth, gender, expiration date and a tamper-resistant feature in order to be allowed to go through the checkpoint and onto their flight.

Passengers who do not or cannot present an acceptable ID will have to provide information to the Transportation Security Officer performing Travel Document Checking duties in order to verify their identity. Passengers who are cleared through this process may be subject to additional screening. Passengers whose identity cannot be verified by TSA may not be allowed to go through the checkpoint or onto an airplane.

Acceptable IDs include:
Acceptable Documents

Photo of acceptable documents
Click here to view a
full-size version.

* U.S. passport
* U.S. passport card
* DHS "Trusted Traveler" cards (NEXUS, SENTRI, FAST)
* U.S. Military ID (active duty or retired military and their dependents)
* Permanent Resident Card
* Border Crossing Card
* DHS-designated enhanced driver's license
* Drivers Licenses or other state photo identity cards issued by Department of Motor Vehicles (or equivalent) that meets REAL ID benchmarks (All states are currently in compliance)
* A Native American Tribal Photo ID
* An airline or airport-issued ID (if issued under a TSA-approved security plan)
* A foreign government-issued passport
* Canadian provincial driver's license or Indian and Northern Affairs Canada (INAC) card
* Transportation Worker Identification Credential (TWIC)

Non-US/Canadian citizens are not required to carry their passports if they have documents issued by the U.S. government such as Permanent Resident Cards. Those who do not should be carrying their passports while visiting the U.S.

This standardization of the list of accepted documents better aligns TSA with other DHS components, including Customs and Border Protection, and REAL ID benchmarks.




-- Edited by StPeteDean on Thursday 22nd of October 2009 07:47:07 PM

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MIP Old Timer

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Wow, Dean,

Thank you for all this info.  I had a long conversation with a friend just yesterday, on this Subject, and now I will cut and Paste, and send to her. She had been so misled by  another. She was told that a Possport would not be enough.  Think you might have saved her, her tentatively planned vacation, with your Response, I will say Thank YOU! for her.

Again, Thank you so much, I will keep a copy myself.

Toni



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MIP Old Timer

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your welcome. A passport is considered a much higher and important form of ID because it's issued by the Federal Govt   That's why it's at the top of the list.  smile.gif


-- Edited by StPeteDean on Thursday 22nd of October 2009 07:49:43 PM

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What I was getting at is that those without License are considered NONDESIRABLE, IRRESPONSIBLE, and INCOMPETENT of getting to a job on time.

For some jobs it is true you need a License IF you are doing DELIVERY type work or CERTAIN SALES work, SECURITY, PARK RANGER and such.

But if you are STANDING BEHIND A DESK why would you need one, or CUSTOMER SERVICE inside a building.

The big cities use Trams, Subway, L's and such--those people have jobs.

If you can get there by any means and are on time who cares about a Driver's License when a State Id or any off of the list you listed will do.

I have personally run into this and was flat out told NO LICENSE, NO JOB, DO NOT BOTHER APPLYING.

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Karen D.  in MI


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Hi Dean,

Again on your response,
 
the Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967 (ADEA), which protects individuals who are 40 years of age or older;  <---I like that one

I held a License to Operate an Employment Agency in California, a while back, so I recall knowing all of these Laws, like the back of my own hand.

But what I copied and pasted that you made a note of, made me smile, for it even got better.  You could NOT Descriminate against anyone over the Age of 40, HOWEVER,  you could descriminate, when Employers were seeking only people OVER 40...I liked that one even more!biggrin 

(Generally these were older business men and women, who felt a more mature person, added stability to their small business').  again, just a broad generalization of this extended Law.

Toni



-- Edited by Just Toni on Thursday 22nd of October 2009 08:12:41 PM

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Doesn't sound fair, I agree it must be frustrating.



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Toni, my wife is an administrator. It's a minefield with all the rules and regs. They had to hire a part time HR person to keep them from getting into trouble. I'm glad I have my little construction biz that's just basically me and 1 or 2 others. They sign subcontractor agreements and I'm free from all that stuff

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MIP Old Timer

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Hi again Karin,

Sorry if I sorted of veered away from your Topic.

Just a question, do you have any businesses that are somewhat close to where you live?? any possibilities....that would end the need for worry about how you will get there.

Just doing some thinking, how about getting on a local transit, anyone in your area, and when aboard that transit, maybe strike up a conversation with someone that looks receptive, and tell them of your current problem, who knows they might say my company does not do that, and tell you where they work, hence, a potential job application.

I was just thinking out loud here, so please, I am sure you will too, take what you want and toss the rest.....smile or toss the whole thing   :). 

Toni



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Hi Karen,

Thanks for posting the story. I took some HR classes a long time ago and I remember the topic of Bona Fide Occupational requirements in hiring practices.

It doesn't sound like a DL would be a requirement to perform the duties in the jobs you described.

I'm not 100% sure on the laws today, but if they tell you are are not being hired due to the DL issue it could be a problem for them, may want to contact a lawyer in the field.

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Rob

"There ain't no Coupe DeVille hiding in the bottom of a Cracker Jack Box."

ljc


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Im Lori, Im an alcoholic and Im still the biggest problem Ive got.

I am ( or rather was ) a drunk driver. I could barely walk or talk, but I could drive. And drive I did. It is ONLY by God grace that Im not sitting in prison for killing someone in a drunk driving accident.

As a result of my drunk driving I was captured, caught and prosecuted ( today I know these incidents were God intervening in my life ). I spent time in jail for 2 offenses and paid dearly for fines, court costs and attorney fee's.
I still shudder when I drive by our county court house in town. And an immediate feeling of gratitude comes over me for I am sober today and not continually having to show up there and stand in front of a Judge.

My point being here is that having / possessing a drivers licence is not my right . It is a privelage. And if an employer requires that I have one, then who do I think I am if I am to dispute their employment requirements ?
It certainly isn't an employers fault that I chose to get behind the wheel of a vehicle and drive drunk, breaking the law and got busted.
They ( imo ) certainly have the right to determine whether I will be a responsible employee and show up for work on time, and not be relying on public transportation or anyone else to get me to work on time.

When I start questioning just what my rights are in any situation Ive most likely got a resentment goin. Im saying that someone or something is violating me.

I remember when I didnt have my drivers licence and my husband or whoever would have to carry me here and there. Id go into a store to make some purchases and write a check for them. Most times, naturally they ask for a drivers licence. And, I still had a picture drivers licence with a little hole punched in it up in the corner that invalidated it and the licence was actually expired. So many times the clerk would bring that to my attention ( and always in front of somebody else standing in line behind me ) . It was so embarrassing. And Id lie, and say, " Yeah I know, Im waiting for my current up to date licence to arrive in the mail". Geez. I use to think to myself ... Who do they think they are asking me for a drivers licence, where is it written in law that I have to have one to write a check ?
Ya know what ... that aint my call to make. If they say I need one, then that is what is required . They need information on me in case that check bounces and that is most likely their policy.

Its my fault I lost my licence . Nobody elses but my own. Today , I have my driver licence back in my possession and it is valid. Thankyou God ! I pray I NEVER , EVER get behind the wheel of a vehicle and drive drunk again in my life.
I caused me to lose a freedom that was a privelage, not my God given right.

Maybe life isn't fair sometimes . But for this sober alcoholic it has been fair . And its not my job to determine who is or isn't being fair to me. ( especially when I know Ive caused my own problems and can at least admit that today ).

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K.i.s.s.



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Hi

Thanks, gives a little bit more to think about.  Especially the Over 40 Bit--I will be 48 on Nov 7.

A friends daughter just got hired at a place I had at least 2 applications at--she is fresh out of high school and just turned 20.  The way she described what she would be doing is excatly what I interviewd for.

So see what happens.

Oh, by the way I have had my License back June 22 of this year.  So been driving for 4 months as of yesterday.

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Karen D.  in MI


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Hi Karen, it might be time to let go of this as it may be getting in the way of having positive feelings about getting hired. May I suggest thanking your HP for the job that he has found for you (in advance) with gratitude? It's a "new thought" practice that works for me. Being self employed, I have to find work every week and have had to for 21 years. It's a huge leap of faith that work will come, and more of it will come if I'm grateful. smile.gif

Dean

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The problem was up until 2007 had a position that helped me out even with the problems of 2002. Started with them in 1997 then the Duis in 2002, (lost License then) transferred to a store where the bus line ran in Oct 2002 was with the same company(Big Box type) until being let go in 2007.

10 Years with the same company umbrella and no problems except the one that got me let go.

While trying to get back into the job fields, that is when I found out about all the problems facing those of us who do not, or did not have a license at the time.


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Karen D.  in MI


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Basically I have been unemployed since 2007.  Did have 401k and Stock money but that is all gone now.  Even IRS is after money.

Right now if it were not for various family and friends I would be homeless.

At times I feel like a teenager just starting out with the new freedom of getting the license for the first time and doing chores or errands to just have money for spending--like an allowance.

For certain bills I have to ask Mom, Dad, or My Boyfriend to help handle things.

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Karen D.  in MI


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have you tried thinking of self employment?

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Not really, what would I do?

Consulting, Surveys, what.

Most of the jobs I have had are in Floor Sales, Associate Sales, or Customer Service.

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Karen D.  in MI
kj


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Can't help on the employment issue --- but have been on many airplanes during my license revocation period using only my passport.....have early on bought beer using only my passport.

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