If I were a single man would it be alright to sleep...

Tipsy McStagger · Senior Member

If I were a single man would it be alright to sleep...

Jim S · Member

I don't recall if it's in writing but some meeting houses frown on it....

I think the biggest issue is how far you and the other is along in your program and sobriety... You don't want to take advantage of a newbie that is fragile in their sobriety do you...?

Think about it. Would you want to stand in the way of a persons attempt at sobriety or worse yet, cause them to relapse....?

Having said all that. Are you there to work your program or to pick up girls....?

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Bob Earl was pretty explicit about this and was very opposed to AAs telling other AAs what not to do in relationships. The unwriten rule is "no relationships in the first year", and leave beginner (in there first year) alone if you have more time, but that leaves a lot of room open for "casual" relations

, according to some. Bob Earl says that no where in the Big Book does it mention any of the above and that his early relationship probably kept him and the girl he dated sober. I tend to disagree, and think that the one year rule is a good one. Casual relations not with standing, as long as everyone's on the same page. However many will argue that there is no such thing and that someone's bound to get hurt.

-- Edited by StPeteDean at 21:53, 2008-05-13

Phil · MIP Old Timer

hmmm...

Howdy Tip.

I did a lot of things that were off track when I first got sober...and it took a number of days, before that changed.

So...Ile just honestly share that...

It took a while before my brain moved from my pants to the top of my neck. :)

I was always looking for..

"Whats in it for me? I was a pretty big self centered asshole for a long time....disregarding the very unstable sobriety of others, and taking advantage of it, instead,....to attain personal satisfaction.

Took this kid a long time in sobriety, to learn how to love and be loved...and how to be my own person.

Was always looking outside myself through others to find some sort of identity.

Dating in AA is rough...even for those who have been in, for a while.

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Phil wrote:

Dating in AA is rough...even for those who have been in, for a while.

LMAO, TM prepare to get you ass kicked smile

. I actually had some very nice times with a few female of our fellowship. What I enjoyed the most was asking them questions about women and dating, that always baffled me. I was great, got all the answers that I was looking for. Just don't get married TM

Tipsy McStagger · Senior Member

Who said anything about dating?

Wrong verb buddy =)

TLH · MIP Old Timer

I don't think you should sleep with girls at meetings. That would be rude to the speakers. ;)

Our local groups have a pretty tough bunch of characters that jump all over the "chicken-hawks". There's one guy in my home group who seems to just naturally be a real opportunist when it comes to women, and I've seen a couple old coots reign him in hard and fast a couple times, telling him in no uncertain terms that we don't "prey" on newly sober and emotionally fragile AAs.

and I don't imagine that they're the "saving themselves for marriage" types. Being former boozers and all.

I don't mean to be critical or anything, but that's a pretty broad brush you're painting with there, Picasso. I'm no prude and I'll be the first to say that I'm a terrible drunk (when I drink) but I know plenty alcoholics- including myself- who were never the "nail anything that moves" type (or to even use that verbage, actually. But it kind of seems to suit the fallacy at hand.) While the two (boozing and casual sex) aren't mutually exclusive, neither are they an inseparable combination.

The problem I see with "dating" (are we talking about dating or are we talking about sex? That was a little unclear. Sleeping with them? Are you planning on having a nap?) is that invariably someone gets hurt or angry or whatever- and then you either have to be really realistic and adult about things or you have to split your meetings up or one of you is constantly uncomfortable. I for one have more than enough issues with AA and meetings and people without adding that to the mix. I share meetings with several people who I find annoying and rude, but I manage to keep my mouth shut and mind my business. I can't imagine having to see someone who I've hurt or who bears ill will towards me because I was operating under the misinformation that my member is some sort of compass. No thanks- for me that would be patently foolish and self destructive.

Plus there are 23 hours in the day when I'm not at a meeting (21 hours for the hardcore fundamentalists ;) )and there are lots of pretty woman at the grocery store, the gym, the library, etc.....

TLH · MIP Old Timer

Oh shoot- now that I think of it- read "DRY" by Augusten Burroughs. Brother had to learn about dating in meetings- and in his first year- the hard way.

Incredibly funny guy, Augusten Burroughs, but that book (DRY) and his new one are pretty heart wrenching. Not really a terribly fun trip, between the first drink the last. Running with Scissors was like his warm up for the new one (A Wolf At The Table). I think he pulled a lot of punches when he wrote Running with Scissors.

Tipsy McStagger · Senior Member

TLH wrote: and there are lots of pretty woman at the grocery store, the gym, the library, etc.....

Oh don't get me wrong, I want to bump uglies with them too!

You'll have to forgive me TLH, I'm incredibly selfish, shallow and incapable of thinking in terms beyond of stereotypes and cliches. Hopefully that will change one day after I grow and mature but for now it's all I've got.

TLH · MIP Old Timer

Hey- I spend 8 hours a day on a construction site- have for over twenty years. While a lot of the guys on the sites are interestiung and three dementional personalities, still some insist on trying to prove a lot of the cliches and stereotypes true. Civilians might be amazed at some of the things I've heard. At this pointothing phases me.

Anyhow- I was just thinking outside the box. weirdface

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Tipsy McStagger wrote:

TLH wrote: and there are lots of pretty woman at the grocery store, the gym, the library, etc.....

Oh don't get me wrong, I want to bump uglies with them too!

You'll have to forgive me TLH, I'm incredibly selfish, shallow and incapable of thinking in terms beyond of stereotypes and cliches. Hopefully that will change one day after I grow and mature but for now it's all I've got.

TM,

AA is no different than any other part of society, in that people get to know us and how we are/operate and it will follow us around. If we go around opportunistically self seeking in AA, and people get hurt as a result, are we going to want to go to meetings much with the thought that people are talking/concerned about us? There are some disgusting cliches I could use here, but I think that you get the point. I had a biker tell me early on, amusingly something a mother would say, "If you go around hoping on every loose girl, someday a "nice" girl will come along and won't want to have anything to do with you when they hear about your bad rep."

-- Edited by StPeteDean at 07:35, 2008-05-14

jonijoni · MIP Old Timer

Amen! Bad rep guys in AA can't GET the good ones. Keep that in mind. Use your hand. Then there is no drama involved. Do you want some freshly sober girl to fall madly in love with you and want you to take care of her????? Can you take care of yourself yet even??? Tread lightly.

Likewise, are you trying to learn how to treat people better than you used to, or do you want to simply take your sobriety and run over everyone else's feelings in your path? Feelings do tend to erupt upon sex, and you know that. You can't keep your sobriety if you don't give a crap about others' feelings. Just a warning.

Use your hand.

jc2008 · Veteran Member

You said you're into running, right? Go for a long one. Then take a long, cold, shower. If that fails, make a date with yourself as Joni suggested. Imagine how you'd feel if one of the "hot ones" you're oggling falls for your abundant charms, then picks up a drink when she realizes that you just wanted to treat her like the guys she met when she was drinking. And remember, some day you might want to move beyond the loveless "business like" encounter you propose. By that time, word will have gotten around and you'll be hard pressed (pun intended) to find any woman, hot or not, who will take you seriously.

lani · MIP Old Timer

Hee hee....Talk to the hand brother!!!!! LMAO!!!!

I always enjoy youre threads and you tend to bring up some pretty juicy stuff! Keeps us on our toes for sure!!!!

I love what everyone has said and I can share that there are a few horn dogs at the meetings I go to. Us girls pretty much think,,,,"what a loser, stay away!!!"

You seem like a fun lovin guy! Keep it that way and you will someday be rewarded greatly!

jonijoni · MIP Old Timer

LOL Lani..... HORN DOGS????? LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lani · MIP Old Timer

I love corn dogs!!!!!!! That is hilarious!!!!!!

Hope you having a good day!!!!!
Raining here....Booo
But makes my sleeping feel guilt free!

TenderheartsKS · Senior Member

All kidding aside, the truth of the matter is alcoholism kills. I got involved with a fellow in AA when I was four years sober, and yes, a great deal of it was based on sex sex sex although I was sure it was love too. He relapsed, and subsequently I went right down the drain too because I quit putting my recovery first.

Over 21 years later, he's STILL drinking, married to an active alcoholic, and his health is so poor now from all the booze that he can't work and is on disability.

I ran into him at the store a few months ago and was so shocked by his haggard appearance that I didn't recognize him at first.

I'm just incredibly blessed that I made it back to AA after two months of insanity.

He wasn't so lucky.

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

jc2008 wrote:

You said you're into running, right? Go for a long one. Then take a long, cold, shower. If that fails, make a date with yourself as Joni suggested. Imagine how you'd feel if one of the "hot ones" you're oggling falls for your abundant charms, then picks up a drink when she realizes that you just wanted to treat her like the guys she met when she was drinking. And remember, some day you might want to move beyond the loveless "business like" encounter you propose. By that time, word will have gotten around and you'll be hard pressed (pun intended) to find any woman, hot or not, who will take you seriously.

To give TM the benifit of the doubt, I think he posts these controversial topics
for the attention and enjoyment that they bring both negative and postitive. Not sure if he's really interested in the replies, but I think that he supremely underestimated the majority of sisters on the board and that, probably, most
of them have experienced much more than their share of womanizing. cry

Say it with me TM W-o-m-a-n-i-z-e-r. As the girls suggested, here's a great song by on of our most sober entertainers. May I introduce Mr. Jackson Browne

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpmFwAb73X8

She was standing at the load-in
When the trucks rolled up
She was sniffing all around
Like a half grown female pup
She wasnt hard to talk to
Looked like she had nowhere to go
So I gave her my pass
So she could get in and see the show

Well I sat her down right next to me
And I got her a beer
While I mixed that sound on stage
So the band could hear
The more I watched her watch them play
The less I could think of to say
And when they walked off stage
The drummer swept that girl away

But rosie youre all right -- you wear my ring
When you hold me tight -- rosie thats my thing
When you turn out the light -- Ive got to hand it to me
Looks like its me and you again tonight rosie

Well I guess I might have known from the start
Shed come for a star
Might have told my imagination not to run too far
Of all the times that Ive been burned
By now youd think Id have learned
That its who you look like
Not who you are

But rosie youre all right -- you wear my ring
When you hold me tight -- rosie thats my thing
When you turn out the light -- Ive got to hand it to me
Looks like its me and you again tonight rosie

Here's a couple that inspired me in early sobriety smile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xKeHwXFa88&feature=related

One for the Girls- Sheryl Crow- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SL3Logj4U60&feature=related

Doctor, my eyes have seen the years
And the slow parade of fears without crying
Now I want to understand

I have done all that I could
To see the evil and the good without hiding
You must help me if you can

Doctor, my eyes
Tell me what is wrong
Was I unwise to leave them open for so long

cause I have wandered through this world
And as each moment has unfurled
Ive been waiting to awaken from these dreams
People go just where there will
I never noticed them until I got this feeling
That its later than it seems

Doctor, my eyes
Tell me what you see
I hear their cries
Just say if its too late for me

Doctor, my eyes
Cannot see the sky
Is this the prize for having learned how not to cry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlgmO1YQCIQ

Jackson Browne - The Pretender lyrics

I'm going to rent myself a house
In the shade of the freeway
I'm going to pack my lunch in the morning
And go to work each day
And when the evening rolls around
I'll go on home and lay my body down
And when the morning light comes streaming in
I'll get up and do it again
Amen
Say it again
Amen

I want to know what became of the changes
We waited for love to bring
Were they only the fitful dreams
Of some greater awakening
I've been aware of the time going by
They say in the end it's the wink of an eye
And when the morning light comes streaming in
You'll get up and do it again
Amen

Caught between the longing for love
And the struggle for the legal tender
Where the sirens sing and the church bells ring
And the junk man pounds his fender
Where the veterans dream of the fight
Fast asleep at the traffic light
And the children solemnly wait
For the ice cream vendor
Out into the cool of the evening
Strolls the pretender
He knows that all his hopes and dreams
Begin and end there

Ah the laughter of the lovers
As they run through the night
Leaving nothing for the others
But to choose off and fight
And tear at the world with all their might
While the ships bearing their dreams
Sail out of sight

I'm going to find myself a girl
Who can show me what laughter means
And we'll fill in the missing colors
In each other's paint-by-number dreams
And then we'll put out dark glasses on
And we'll make love until our strength is gone
And when the morning light comes streaming in
We'll get up and do it again
Get it up again

I'm going to be a happy idiot
And struggle for the legal tender
Where the ads take aim and lay their claim
To the heart and the soul of the spender
And believe in whatever may lie
In those things that money can buy
Thought true love could have been a contender
Are you there?
Say a prayer for the pretender
Who started out so young and strong
Only to surrender

-- Edited by StPeteDean at 12:08, 2008-05-14

-- Edited by StPeteDean at 12:54, 2008-05-14

jc2008 · Veteran Member

Thanks for the reality check Dean. I guess I took ol' Tipsy a bit too seriously. I still think he needs to go for a looooooooooong run, though.

lani · MIP Old Timer

I cant believe anyone would take tipsy seriously!!!! lol
As I said before, he starts some interesting topics that I think we have fun commenting on!

Boys will be boys and I think he's the president of that club!!!!! Biggest corn dog I know but I love ya!!!!!

Dean, I guess Im naive as heck as I love "rosie" and NEVER realized what the song was about!!!!!! Duh!!!!!-maybe I did???????

Hey btw, how do you post those you tube songs on here?????

-- Edited by lani at 14:05, 2008-05-14

BatonRougian · Veteran Member

Isnt it funny how TM always has these "problems" that happen to be big riot starters. Im glad nobody bought into it this time. Hey TM, make sure these hot girls are no closer than cousins 3 times removed.

cooncatbob · Senior Member

Just watch out for the Salty Old Broads.

learning · MIP Old Timer

Read this before work....early so I scanned most of the replies. The one thing that
it seems everyone missed was the title of the post.......
'If I were single.......'. Are you TRYING to borrow more trouble?! Seems to me if you're
married or in a serious relationship.....what the hey are you even asking this question for?!

Bryan39 · Senior Member

'If I were single.......

I didn't catvch the if part Typsy you are one of a kind my man

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

lani wrote:

I cant believe anyone would take tipsy seriously!!!! lol
Dean, I guess Im naive as heck as I love "rosie" and NEVER realized what the song was about!!!!!! Duh!!!!!-maybe I did???????

Hey btw, how do you post those you tube songs on here?????

-- Edited by lani at 14:05, 2008-05-14

lani, just to the right of the video box, on a youtube that you're watching is the URL address. Just right click it, or copy paste it and put [/url] behind it and [url] in front of it, like any other link.

Now if John or his webmaster did a little work, we could "embed" the video with the emeded code provided at youtube, and the video box would show up in the thread with a play arrow smile

-- Edited by StPeteDean at 21:31, 2008-05-14

beachgirl · Senior Member

TM- nothing you have said is either endearing or funny. Vaguely annoying at best. Enjoyed everyone else's comments and songs tho! BG

lani · MIP Old Timer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwB5iRHu3dU/url

All right, the LAST song for TM..............

Just wanted to see if it worked!!!!!!!

??????????

-- Edited by lani at 13:43, 2008-05-15

TLH · MIP Old Timer

TLH · MIP Old Timer

Just wanted to show off! biggrin

Kirsty MacColl's voice is some kind of magic.

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

lani wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwB5iRHu3dU

All right, the LAST song for TM..............

Just wanted to see if it worked!!!!!!!

??????????

-- Edited by lani at 13:43, 2008-05-15

OMG! that's amy winehouse? she sings horribly, and so does that guy on TLH's video. the guy is so off key and flat I couldn't finish listening, and I kinda like Irish folk music. At least the good stuff like Van Morrison's Celtic group.

-- Edited by StPeteDean at 18:46, 2008-05-15

TLH · MIP Old Timer

That's Shane MacGowan previously of the Pogues- poster child for alcohol abuse and probably the most well known Irishman on the planet (next to Bobby Sands and JFK) wink

. You want good Celtic music try the Old Blind Dogs, live. Absolutely fantastic stuff- I won't lead you astray there.

The point of that video was juxtaposition, I believe- putting an ex punk rocker and raging pub rocker (macgowan) in this wonderful ballad with the beautiful voice and fairly under control Kirsty MacColl.

Since when did traditional Irish music (which that isn't) require singing in key? Going to see Shane Macgowan isn't about singing in key (and a good thing too because he rarely does!) It's about the spectacle of it all. I saw a video about Shane Macgowan (if I Fall from Grace) and one of the other band members mentions that the entire balance of the band (aside from Shane MacGowan) have all quit drinking, and he says it's in large part because if they continued to try and keep up with their lead man they would all be dead.

-- Edited by TLH at 21:01, 2008-05-15

TLH · MIP Old Timer

TLH · MIP Old Timer

You know what's really sad is this is just my favorite kind of music, but in my head when the music starts my brain thinks that's the signal to start drinking. Serious trigger there for me, the Irish music.

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

OK TLH so I don't get it, but that's ok (I think lol) whatever you find entertaining is good. I used to sing in a couple bands and singing well is important to me. Did you like the "Karate Kid" movies? Probably not. Bruce Lee? I'm sure. smile

Thanks for the Old blind dogs, I like biggrin

-- Edited by StPeteDean at 21:22, 2008-05-15

TLH · MIP Old Timer

I like Bruce Lee. Amazing person. Did you know that one of his legs was an inch shorter than the other, and despite that he did all that he did? Inspiring. Karate kid? I like it Ok. Tragically un-hip, which is cool with me. I used to practice karate and kickboxing and prior to the Matrix coming out there was always some clown quoting lines from Karate kid. (After the Matrix came out it was the Dojo scene: Neo: "I know Karate!" Morpheus: "Show me!"

Crack up. Only thing funnier than busting out that wounded crane in the middle of sparring is when someone cuts one in the middle of a grappling demo (Sorry! It was the sausage at breakfast!)

I agree music is objective. The pogues come from the early days of punk in London (Shane Macgowan was in a punk band called the Nipple Erectors prior to the Sex Pistols forming, and in fact ran around with all of that crowd.) But Shane was raised in a musical (and alcoholic) family in Ireland, and eventually punk didn't cut it so they began finding a middle ground between Shane's traditional Irish stuff and punk. They became hugely popular in europe for that, and have had a growing popularity in the U.S., especially in the 90s when for some reason a lot of college kids began thinking it's cool to be irish (You can thank House of Pain for a lot of that.) Good god I'd never seen more guys in tweed caps and suspenders with mutton-chops. I never could figure out if they were twenty years too late or a hundred.

I absolutely thrive on music, and right now am way into the Yoshida Brothers, a pair of boys from Japan who have fused new music with keen musicianship on 5000 year old instruments (well- the style is 5000 years old- the instruments are repros.) These guys are really outstanding and I've heard them with Ry Cooder and I've heard them fuse "cool Jazz" (not my favorite jazz at all, but they managed to make it really decent) and I even heard them cover Brian Eno, which was interesting.

jonijoni · MIP Old Timer

love early punk. And later Brit punk too... and later hardcore... Used to have a 33 vinyl of the Sex Pistols intertwined with BBC reports where various members of parliament and the Brit media were calling them "the devil's music", "a travesty" and so-forth. It was pink and white marble vinyl. :o) It went by the wayside while drinking/using. Black Flag and Bad Brains had been among my later faves... Love the music and the culture, no-can-do with the culture now though, due to sobriety and, well, having a "normal life" thanks to AA. Love the music still though.

lani · MIP Old Timer

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Elizabeth_I_Rainbow_Portrait.jpg

lani · MIP Old Timer

"God save the Queen....She aint no human bein"".....Wasnt that the sex pistols!!!!!!!?

Yea you are all show offs! I still dont get the You tube post idea!!!!!

Very cool tho...Found "A star is born" on there!!!!! Love that movie! Remember 1978!!!!

"See Hellacious acres...Your tailor made nightmare!!!!!"

Sound like a fuddy duddy but I admire Barbara striesands voice sooo much!

I am hitting the sack but I hope you all have a great day!!! I had a good night at work and its feels good to help others while Im on my poor me escapade!!!!

jonijoni · MIP Old Timer

I LOVE Brittish history and culture... especially the monarchy. Tread lightly!!!! Tread lightly!!!

That picture you posted, Lani, is absolutely GORGEOUS!!!!!!

jonijoni · MIP Old Timer

Yummmyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!! :o)

TLH · MIP Old Timer

Oh my yeah- I feel the Clash "London Calling" might be the most perfect LP ever.

I never got to see the Clash- or the Sex Pistols- though I did see Public Image a couple times. I was in a band in 81-83 though, and I did get to share a stage and hang out with bands like theBad Brains, Minor Threat, Black Flag, DOA, the Vandals, Social Distortion (they stayed at our house whenever they played in San Diego), and a bunch more. Very cool experience for a 16-17-18 year old kid. I wish I could remember more of it.

I also wish I had the foresight to go see the Specials and the other two-tone bands when they played L.A.- but I thought I was too punk for that. (Mistakenly, obviously- I think the Specials first album is another one of those perfect 12" LPs that seems to pass the test of time.) Same with Elvis Costello and Joe Jackson. I was a little too narrow in my listening matter (a little too narrow between the ears) to check them out because they were "new wave" or too commercial or whatever. Now they are all in constant rotation. Live and learn.

lani · MIP Old Timer

All that music reminds me of the 80's for some reason and hitting the clubs dancin our fool heads off all night!!! Poofed hair and the swinging of the arms like mad monkeys!!!!!

"I wanna be sedated!!!!""!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So what about the master of music!!!! Phil collins!!!!!!!!

Love love love that dude!!!! I seriously should have been in a band! Love to sing, dance and air drums!!!!!.....good thing I didnt try, I got kicked out of the church choir!!!!!!!!

TLH · MIP Old Timer

I flunked woodshop twice. I've been a carpenter for nearly twenty-five years. ;)

lani · MIP Old Timer

So theres hope for me yet!!! Look out Madonna!!!!

TLH · MIP Old Timer

I think today one of my favorite albums is the first disc of Elvis Costello's Best of. Great collection of songs. I had the good fortune to see him in Honolulu with the Honolulu Symphony Orchestra backing him up. One of the better live performances I've seen, and I've seen a lot. That man is aging gracefully and is completely disarming in how casual and accessable he is. A completely charming person. I could totally see him travelling under an assumed name and being just a regular guy if his face weren't so easy to recognize.

TLH · MIP Old Timer

Coincidentally, there is a funny story in Shane Macgowan's autobiography about the Pogues touring with Elvis Costello. Elvis Costello was a rising star at that point, on the verge of world renown. The Pogues were the pogues, but also rising to their own more cult following stardom. On the rider the promoters were to supply the Pogues with whiskey and Guinness, tE.C. and the Attractions got champagne and vodka or something like that. So the Pogues would drink all their alotted booze and then go on stage and play. Then they'd come back stage as the Attractions were going on and they'd drink all of their booze too. Between that and the fact that Shane Macgowan is a glib and clever fellow and he kept chatting up one member of E.C. the attraction's wife, there was no love lost between the two bands by the end of the tour. Lucky for the pogues Backstage security was primarily Irish.

Like I said though- 9/10ths of the Pogues were sober ten years later. I suppose it's a hazard of the course for an Irish pub band.

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Elvis Costello is cool. His greatest hits cd stays in my car.

jonijoni · MIP Old Timer

I got to drive up and see the Ramones Detroit in the 90's.... they were old .... loads of fun!! The sum total of their "stage action" at the time was jumping off a 2 foot high wooden box on stage... lol

TLH · MIP Old Timer

They were in top form then- that was the sum total of their stage act in 82! wink

TLH · MIP Old Timer

You know who knew some punk stuff was sheilasdad! Where the heck did he get off to?

Going to have to send out Phil with the Huskies- search and rescue!

Doll · MIP Old Timer

Responding to the topic

NO! It's NOT alright!

The BB DOES talk about SEX and the 4th step! READ IT! It may shed some light on things......(I hope).