I am almost 8 years sober and I feel worse than I did when I was one year sober. I am working the steps, have a great sponsor, go to meetings, have a sponsee am a single mom to two grown children who are doing great. Yet I still have bouts of depression and anxiety. My self esteem is still shaky. I think I am ready for a relationship yet don't know exactly how to get into one. Its weird when I was drinking and using it was so easy to talk to men, now its so difficult. Has anyone else faced this dilemma?
Aloha Glinda...Congradulations on the 8 year and thanks for reminding me that recovery is a one day at a time process. I never found a drink or relationship which took away depression, panic, anxiety or permanently improved my self esteem. Taking care of those situations and conditions has always been an inside job for me when I learned it was an inside job. Depression for me is organic; comes with the territory. I'm dysthymic and I've met lots of recovering fellows and gals who have also been so diagnosed. Staying on the gratitude side of the program has helped me alot along with keeping a constant inventory of what I am doing or not doing. Panic and anxiety are attached to my taproot of fear and so is depression (often described as anger turned inward). My self esteem is improved with healthy positive inventorying. I start from the top up now rather than from the bottom.
Hello Glinda and welcome to the board. Congrats on 8 years! I also did a lot of work in ACOA, but I got way more help with relationships and all around better feeling of self esteem by working in Codependents anonymous and reading as many John Bradshaw books as I could. I also attended a 3 day seminar with Author Claudia Black, on relationships in recovery, not relationships with people in recovery, which imo is a statistical nightmare, remembering well that relationships are the number 1 relapse trigger for AAs with time in the program. I think the biggest challenge for me was to change my perceptions, by not colorizing them by events in the past and stop being a victim, a behavior that I learned too well from my alcoholic mother (who is sober now). There is lots of work to do, getting sober is just the entrance fee that we pay to enable us to begin the self analysis process.
My first AA sponsor helped me a lot with relationships concepts. He told me that "my picker was broken" and that I was attracted to the wrong women (unhealthy) and that I should run away from the ones that I had a strong attraction for. He went on to explain that I needed to date women that I knew were quality individuals but didn't look like prospects to me because they were so independent and perhaps scared me off because "They didn't Need Me". He made lots of statements like "you need to defuse this bomb, that is your perception of women and how you treat them", and "the only differences between men and women are minor differences in their plumbing". He went on to explain " you need to treat the women that you're dating just like you would one of your guy friends." He meant that I shouldn't act any differently, expect them to pay their own way while we were dating, refrain from giving gifts and favors, and expect them to do what they say they are going to do, as in show up on and ontime for dates etc.... and don't cut them any slack because they are women. All that was about setting boundaries for myself and others, so I'll respect myself and others will respect me. I've added a lot requirements since then about honesty, fidelity, integrity, etiquette, financial responsibility, personal and career goals, manners, respect for their own body, and freedom from addictions. Then the next step is to BE That Person that you wish to attract, so I'm going to have to work hard to meet, and maintain my own very high qualifications. As a single person, I must "have a life" a full life as a bachelor, be happy in that position so that I am dating from a position of strength rather than on one of Neediness. I must have a life full of routines, hobbies, including a great program, complete with a social network of men and women in recovery, and a social life. That person will have to earn their way into my life, over time, qualifying themselves. The good news in this is there are some quality people waiting for you at the end of the process. The Carrot. A healthy relationship between to adults, is when two fully independent people decide to spend some of their time together for their shared enjoyment.
An aquaintance is a person that you meet at an event, and your subsequential unplanned meetings are related to the event.
A companion is an aquaintance, who through several encounters as an aquaintance, has displayed proper behavior, and appears to have similar interests to possible qualify as a friend. Brief outings, typical with a group of others, with this person (a bike ride, a game of vollyball...) the encounter would be centered around the activity and no immediate planning for the next meeting would occur at the end of the activity.
A friendship would begin with a person who has passed through the aquaintancechip and companionship stages, over time and a number of activities. A Planned activitity would be centered on the friendship rather than the activity. ex. "Let's get together on saturday for a couple hours and go have lunch and see what there is to do downtown"
A relationship is when those two time tested friends decide to see each other romantically. A date is made and the emphasis is on that date, with no guarnatees of the future, imo sex is not in the picture. It's a time to ask questions and learn about each other to see if compatibility exhists while having fun in a more one on one activity, . Remember that person doesn't "qualify" to be in a relationship just because they "like" you.
A committed relationship is when, over time, the people in the relationship decide to see each other exclusively, to get to know each other on a deeper level, exploring the possibility of a long term committment, which at this point is not an assumption. This is not living together or the equivilent of spending every possible moment together. Each of these individuals still have a separate life full of thier own social activities, friends, hobbies.
Marriage is a much more committed relationship, after much time and evaluation has determined conciderable compatibility, shared goals and direction, with contingency planning for logistics, finances, and family that have been agreed upon. The people will still maintain thier indivuality, friends, hobbies ect.. the difference being that the relationship concerns will come first.
There, you have it, The 5 levels of intamacy plus marriage. The probelm with codependents (almost all alcoholics are codependents (some are counterdependents) is they want to go from aquaintance to marriage in a couple of weekends.
And once these two needy individuals cling to each other in their whirlwind romance, there is No chance for gettting to know each other, as they've skipped all of the stages of relationships by throwing out all boundaries and what's left is a big scary mess of uncertainty, pain, and fear. Been there, done that, and have the souviegners.
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Sunday 15th of August 2010 08:04:04 AM
I too am 8 years sober and only in the past few months have allowed a man get close to me in sobriety........some so called "normal folk" would probably gasp at that but that is how it has been for me. It truly has taken me this long to understand and to even get to know myself.
I am incredibly shy - to the point of terror. Sometimes people (men) can ask me my name and I almost freeze and can't speak!!!!! I carry alot of fear of men with me still but, I do know that most men are wonderful lovely creatures I just carry baggage that's hard to shift! The person I have become close to is also in recovery (many many years sober) and I think the fact we "speak the same language" has helped. I did not search for this person, my HP brought him to me when I was ready......
Re the bouts of anxiety and depression. I can get those too - I call them my "seasons" in recovery. They often get worse for me (alot worse!) just before I know I need to take action on something or make changes. Those changes are almost always for the good (in the long run). But, before making them I get can get anxious and very unsettled even before I am aware that I am going to need to make some changes. I no longer tell myself to not be stupid ......I am extra kind to myself but make myself take the action anyway........then leave the rest to my HP.
The change that caused me the most anxiety in AA was choosing to work the program in a different way to my sponsor. I was becoming swallowed up by meetings (including private meetings with her) and the pressure of service work. Choosing a different balance and informing her was not easy. Having to go away by myself and make that decision was tough.
My HP has never let me down ......but I forget that so so easily!
I am grateful for all the wonderful things on this beautiful planet, for AA and for my sobriety and the joy in my very simple life.......however a gratitude list at times can make me feel worse - guilty (as in I shouldn't be feeling anxious/down) . For me, I need to accept how I'm feeling and inventory it and sort it.
Maybe there's a change coming to you too! Maybe your HP knows you're ready now ........and has plans !!!!
Sending you lots of love, as ever this is only my ESH, lovely to have you here, Louisa xx
I'm coming up on two years sober and still have a LOT of work to do. I've stayed away from relationships the past five years, because in that time I just plain haven't been good relationship material. I guess I also feel that, at this point, I need to work on my relationship with myself. I spent a long time trying to meet other people's needs and wants, and I pretty much forgot what feeds MY spirit. Until I get my own head screwed on straight, I'm not a lot of good for anyone else.
But you said you've done the work, so it might be just a case of nerves. It's hard to try something sober when you're only used to doing it when you weren't. I have a big work project coming up, and the last time I had to do one of this particular type of project was just before I got sober. It's high pressure, and it feels like I don't remember how to do it.
Maybe the thing to do is to just work on opening yourself up to the IDEA of a relationship, without making it a goal. Up until my last relationship ended, my goal was always to get into the next one. Made some bad choices that way, got way too involved way too fast with people who were not healthy for me.
I spent a long time trying to meet other people's needs and wants, and I pretty much forgot what feeds MY spirit. Until I get my own head screwed on straight, I'm not a lot of good for anyone else.....
Made some bad choices that way, got way too involved way too fast with people who were not healthy for me.
I can idenitfy with THIS for sure, Lexie!!
And Glinda, aside from giving you a BIG welcome to the group, I want to ask you a question. You said you are "feeling worse than ever". Do you mean just witht eh lack of relationship, or are you suffering in other ways? I am curious.
Thanks!
Joni
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~Your Higher Power has not given you a longing to do that which you have no ability to do.
My solution has been to continue getting into relationships repeatedly so that I never get out of practice...
That is a joke sort of (though truthful) and I know I need more work in CoDA. Sometimes AA does not carry all the answers. Also it would seem that I stopped spilling my guts and sharing my feelings in meetings as much when I went over a year of sobriety. So...nobody knows what's going on with you as much when you don't share it in meetings. Hopefully, you do have a sponsor that can give you suggestions on this stuff.
My guess is that you have settled a bit into a routine and could use to just shake things up in a healthy way. This could involve you being more active in church, a club, or some other group that will put you in contact more with other people (women and MEN). It is not easy to meet singles later in life...If you feel like you are ready and want it, why not try match.com or eharmony? Only you know if taking these risks will jeopardize your sobriety. Either way, the depression and anxiety coming back would seem to suggest that you are ready to change some again but are sort of stuck. Go bravely forward and take some positive risks.
Of course I could be full of crap here...but it's my opinion.
In support,
Mark
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Are you mentioning these sorts of thoughts at the discussion meetings you are attending? I have heard that this is the best way to move through a tough period. And I have heard that it is not always smooth sailing in sobriety, although the problems do not multiply exponentially as they did when drinking. I am told, talk to some one else and talk to God of your understanding.
Hi I can relate a little though its different. I am 10 years sober and am feeling worse than my first year I am sure. Well I think for me its because now i really have to do life and life is hard and i dont like it. I struggle a lot. But the relationship thing i am still married to same bloke that i was with when i drunk. But yeh we been through some hard times are seeing a marriage counsellor and things. bottom line is i cant drink safely. I might end up in the hospital with a breakdown but i cant drink. I dont sound very positive sorry. I mean to say, whatever else happens in my life I cannot afford to drink. thats my bottom line.
All I do is keep trying each day and hoping it gets better! I am sure it will.
Its good you are talking about it I hope you speak to a sponsor or people in AA in person also. Hoping you get a lot of support. Congrats on the 8 Years too!
-- Edited by slugcat on Monday 16th of August 2010 09:28:18 AM
Forgive me if this has been mentioned -- I'm having a little difficulty reading on the screen, so I've read your post and skimmed the replies.
How's your spiritual life? Anytime I find myself feeling restless, irritable, and discontented, or think I need something outside of me to make me happy, it's usually because I'm resting on my laurels. Redoubling prayer and meditation, expanding my spiritual life, and turning my attention to others in need of help usually makes me feel better. I'm watching a friend who's about five years sober and who decided she was ready to date. How chaotic her life has become! I'm not saying that dating has made her life chaotic -- but seeking to date, rather than opening herself to the possibility and allowing it to happen, has put her back in the director's chair, and she's starting to see it's not the best place for her.
Also -- I've heard it said that we're ready for a relationship when we no longer need one. Seems like a pretty wise idea.
Hang in there. It will all come together soon. I had the same problem--one sponsor moved away and the other one traveled a lot--we kept in touch but in some ways I needed the one on one contact also.
"I am almost 8 years sober and I feel worse than I did when I was one year sober. I am working the steps, have a great sponsor, go to meetings, have a sponsee am a single mom to two grown children who are doing great. Yet I still have bouts of depression and anxiety. My self esteem is still shaky. I think I am ready for a relationship yet don't know exactly how to get into one. Its weird when I was drinking and using it was so easy to talk to men, now its so difficult. Has anyone else faced this dilemma?"
So, in other words you are a normal human being!... The good news is that you are a sober human being, which means you have a fighting chance to over-come all obstacles in your way.
Work on your relationship with God... "Much has been said about receiving strength, inspiration, and direction from Him who has all knowledge and power. If we have carefully followed directions, we have begun to sense the flow of His Spirit into us. To some extent we have become God-conscious. We have begun to develop this vital sixth sense."
and you are through step 9... then watch for your character defects, ask God to remove them, discuss with someone (not necessarily your sponsor ), and find someone to help... We are specially suited to help other alcoholics, but we can help anyone too.
You say you have a sponsor and are "working the Steps", so does that mean you have made ALL the amends you're consciously aware of, do nightly 4 column inventory ON PAPER, pray & meditate every day, and stay on the firing-line actively taking other women through the work? How many other alcoholics are you currently taking through the work?
Are you of service to your home group? What is your commitment to that group? Are you seeing where "religious men are right and 'making' use of what they have to offer"? How many retreats have you been on in the last 12 months? Where are you in the Circle & Triangle. Are you in one part of a three part program expecting the results of all three? Are you suffering from the belief that 8 yrs behind you has anything to do with whether or not you'll be sober tomorrow?
How many times a month are you carrying the message into hospitals and institutions? Who are you accountable to on these things? Is there transparency with the people around you or are you keeping a bunch of stuff to yourself?
Finally, are you worshipping the "fingers" that point to God (The Steps, your Sponsor, the group, etc.) or are you worshipping that to which the fingers point?
I don't know the answers to these questions, but if you're serious about regaining a conscious contact with the Power that has you sober right now in this breath, you might want to sit with them.
Btw, these are some of the 28 questions that the 4 men in my accountability group (it's called Steel on Steel) ask each other in our meeting every 2 weeks. We hold each other accountable out of a place of love and shine the light on each other's blind spots. We care more about each others lives than our sensitive little alcoholic feelings. The effect produced is that we all stay extremely engaged in seeing what we can "pack into the stream of life".
Just something you might want to consider.
God bless!
-- Edited by cajunhorn on Tuesday 17th of August 2010 12:32:06 AM
-- Edited by cajunhorn on Tuesday 17th of August 2010 12:42:00 AM
Yeah!!! Boy!!! Thank you for posting this. 8 years!!! Still "working the steps" (and I agree how are you "working" them???) All these suggestions about written inventories "staying out of relationships and being open to one, no wonder you don't know if you are coming or going LOL.
All this and not one word about THE BIG BOOK!!! You know. That BIG BLUE BOOK THAT HAS THE WORDS ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS ON THE FRONT COVER!!! Has your sponsor ever told you about it???
I'm sure you've heard about it at meetings, maybe you've read it and fell asleep. Typical. People's situations are different obviously. But then again misery is just that...misery...and maybe you're not miserable enough...yet.
Btw if I were your pidgeon I'd run like hell. Nothing worse than a miserable person trying to teach another how to be truly happy and healthy when the teacher doesn't know the first thing about it because they haven't experienced it for themselves.
I was "lucky" I only had to put in about 5 years of misery both in and out of A.A. with other people's (and my own) b.s. to knock me on my knees and ask for some REAL HELP. Once I did "Mother/Father/Sister/Brother/Lover God" and I were were unstoppable. Not even the whole of the A.A. fellowship could stop things from happening.
Can I help you??? Probably not because God can only help those that help themselves, but today I know those sacred words "Physician heal thyself" is true with G.reat O.ne D.oing (doing for me what I can't do for myself) as my guide.
Find a BIG BOOK group that has the best results with people. Hopefully you'll find one like I did tha
I completely agree with you on the advice about staying out of relationships, etc., but I respectfully wonder where, exactly, do you think the idea of written inventories comes from? The Dr. Phil show?
Also, where do you believe the advice of seeing "where religious men are right" making use of what they have to offer comes from? Here's a hint, it's in the same book you speak of.
The Circle & Triangle? Know much about AA's history? No offense, but what is it y'all talk about in your Big Book Meetings?
Might be time for you to eat your own cooking and read the same book you're recommending to others.
-- Edited by cajunhorn on Tuesday 17th of August 2010 10:00:47 AM
-- Edited by cajunhorn on Tuesday 17th of August 2010 10:03:39 AM
I just carry baggage that's hard to shift! The person I have become close to is also in recovery (many many years sober) and I think the fact we "speak the same language" has helped. I did not search for this person, my HP brought him to me when I was ready......